Separation of church and football

Tim Kowal 125 Comments

From Joe Carter at First Things:

A few weeks ago George Weigel wrote that the Denver Bronco’s third-string quarterback Tim Tebow “draws hatred because he is an unabashed Christian, whose calmness and decency in the face of his Christophobic detractors drives them crazy.” Many sports analysts are starting to draw a similar conclusion:

“‘Inside the NFL” analyst and former Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Cris Collinsworth concluded that much of the hatred against Tebow was based on his religious beliefs. Responding to a question from fellow host James ‘JB’ Brown, Collinsworth showed his disgust for Tebow’s treatment: “It’s unbelievable, though, JB, that one of the best kids – just pure kids that’s ever come into the NFL – is hated because of his faith, because of his mission work, because of the fact that he wears it on his sleeve, because of the fact that he lives his life that he talks about.”

[. . .]

NBCsports.com commentator Jelisa Castrodale argued: “The NFL’s other backup-turned-starters don’t generate this type of negativity.” And CBS analyst and former 49ers offensive lineman Randy Cross blamed the media for anti-Tebow coverage: “‘People, especially the media, root against him because of what he stands for.”

It seems hard to argue this phenomenon has anything to do with Tebow’s particular faith, i.e., Christianity.  Collinsworth gets it right when he identifies the source of the bad vibes as “the fact that he lives his life that he talks about.”  It’s wrapped up in the same part of the brain that makes Gore Vidal’s observation true:  “Every time a friend succeeds, I die a little.”  Everyone talks a big game.  But then you’re supposed to go out there and be a compromising slob like the rest of us.  High ideals are fine as long as you don’t seriously aim to live up to them.

Tim Kowal

Tim Kowal is a husband, father, and attorney in Orange County, California, Vice President of the Orange County Federalist Society, commissioner on the OC Human Relations Commission, and Treasurer of Huntington Beach Tomorrow. The views expressed on this blog are his own. You can follow this blog via RSS, Facebook, or Twitter. Email is welcome at timkowal at gmail.com.

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125 Comments

  2. Not buying either part of this. There are plenty of loudly pious Christians in the NFL, nobody has got their hate on for them. Pointing up to thank god or talk about his blessings in sweaty post game interviews is ordinary. Players from BYU get drafted and succeed also. Exactly how is Tebow such a better person then others to create this backlash. If anything it may be the belief that he is such a better person that grates.

    • Lurk around the SB Nation blogs, and you’ll see a lot of fans hating on players for their faith. It’s not necessarily the media, but it’s there.

      • Any cursory reading of any sports forum will allow you to find people hating on others for every single possible ridiculous thing you can think of, you can find deep evidence of any -ism you want there, it’s evidence of precisely nothing except the John Gabriel’s Internet Greater Dickwad Theory.
        There is no absolutely no less-persecuted group of people in the United States than Christians.

  3. Steve Young is a devout Christian (yes, Mormons are Christians) from BYU who’s led an exemplary personal life, and, other than the idiots who couldn’t forgive him for not being Joe Montana, everyone’s always loved him. What makes him different from Tebow?

    • Tebow has been spoiled at the NFL level, being groomed for a starting QB job that’s way ahead of what he’s shown the skillset to be successful at. Steve Young was just the opposite, not merely having to ride the bench behind Joe Montana but being pretty shabbily treated by him as well.

      • Good points. I think personality enters into it as well. Tebow is perceived as painfully earnest and gung-ho, while Young was seen as friendly, unassuming, and a bit goofy. Both are caricatures, I’m sure: no one as laid-back as Young is made out to be could have become an NFL hall-of-famer, but the fact remains that Young seems likable and Tebow does not.

        • It occurs to me that, while all Dodgers are the scum of the earth, I especially hated Steve “Mr. Clean” Garvey, because he seemed to be so upright and so perfect. (Of course that was before he lost his kewpie-doll wife to (I am not making this up) Marvin Hamlisch, and then fathered two illegitimate children within a few months.)

          • I remember that! It was my first introduction into the the difference between our heroes’ real worlds and the worlds their PR people created for them. (I was a big time Garvey fan.)

          • I can unabashedly say I was not a Garvey fan, for the reasons Mike mentioned.

            That fact that he single-handedly destroyed my beloved (at the time) Cubs chances for WS title (1984?) is entirely beside the point.

  4. What makes you think people don’t like Tim because of his faith? I don’t know anyone who likes him, and I have never heard his faith come up as an issue. Instead, what I hear is some combination of the following:

    1. Pretty boy
    2. ‘Eff-ing Gator
    3. NFL icon without having done anything
    4. Pretty Boy
    5. Tons of media attention in college, despite not quite being best QB in college any of the years he got attention

    Are any of the above worthy of hatred? Not by my account, but sports is sports, and that’s just the way people are. But I don’t buy the “people don’t like him because he’s Christian” meme. It’s like a War on Christmas meets the NFL forced story.

  5. The only lens that I can look through and have football make any sense to me is the lens of pro wrestling.

    With that said, let me just say the following:

    1) People hated Martin Luther King Jr as well… and they put together many lists with many entries each explaining how racism had nothing to do with it.

    2) I’d rather have a crappy quarterback who has God behind him than a good one who kills dogs.

    3) A co-worker told me that after they tied everything up, Orton screwed up the coin flip. “Wouldn’t that have been *PERFECT*?” he asked me. “Tebow gets it all tied up and then they have Orton screw up the coin flip and then the Broncos lose because of that?”

    4) For *DECADES*, the Broncos were a “Playoff Team”. Maybe they didn’t win the Superbowl. Sure. They got to the playoffs like clockwork. After decades of that, being stuck with the Lions is pretty disheartening. You stop cheering for wins or even hoping for 8-8… you’re stuck talking about “fighting spirit” and “heart” and bullcrap like that. Tebow is 100% “fighting spirit” and “heart”.

    • People hated Martin Luther King Jr as well… and they put together many lists with many entries each explaining how racism had nothing to do with it.

      And people hated Nixon and insisted it had nothing to do with disliking Quakers.

      After decades of that, being stuck with the Lions is pretty disheartening.

      The Lions are 5-2.

  6. I totally buy that people dislike him because of his faith, because that’s part of the reason why I dislike him (his being a Bronco counts against him, of course). Sure, he’s far from being the only man of faith playing the game, but he’s so…so…public, so in-your-face about it that I find it off-putting, and the sports media just can’t seem to talk about him without bringing up his faith. Is that because of the Superbowl commercial with his Mom? Is it because of the “John 3:16” eyeblack he wore at Florida? I mean, Reggie White was a (Baptist?) minister but I only remember him as a dominating defensive end, and the sports media might have talked about his faith, but mostly they talked about his ability as a DE. Well, that, and Brett Favre laying down for him, but never mind that. Lots and lots and lots of players praise god when they score a touchdown or make an interception or whatever, but they don’t bother me much beyond just an eye-roll, and that, mostly, because they fail to genuflect when they get beaten on a long throw or drop a sure touchdown pass (Stevie Johnson being the exception, of course). Tebow’s faith is so public that you really can’t talk about his qualities as a football player unless you also address his belief.

    • Didn’t Favre lay down for Michael Strahan, or am I forgetting something (which is totally possible)?

    • This. It’s not that he has faith, or that he lives his faith. It’s that he wears it so prominently on his sleeve.

      I had no problems at all with the devoutness of, for example, the aforementioned Reggie White, who was not just a devout Christian but personally a minister and apparently one of considerable skill. How many players offer prayer in the end zone after they score a touchdown? As a secular football fan, I’ve got no problem with that, and I don’t think hardly anyone does on any kind of a serious level.

      Mr. Tebow apparently feels a religious obligation to proselytize from the unusally high public profile he enjoys. Why would he wear his famous “John 3:16” eyeblacks other than to proselytize? He has synthesized evangelism into his public persona. It’s impossible to see, read about, or speak of Tim Tebow without recalling how prominently he has evangelized. And he seems quite pleased with that.

      Like a lot of people, I find the experience of being proselytized to annoying. If you detect public resentment of Mr. Tebow, I suggest you consider the source of that resentment being aimed at his successful integration of his evangelism into his entire public persona, combined with the irritation many people feel at having to endure being proselytized to.

      Since he’s become Denver’s starting QB, it seems to me that he has toned down the evangelism quite a bit and is now asking to be given a chance to prove and develop his abilities as a professional football player, the empahsis there being on the word “professional.” I’m favorably impressed with how he handled the QB controversy (he kept his mouth shut, worked hard at practice, tried hard when he got subbed into a game, and publicly deferred to the coach), and his willingness to let his performance on the field speak for itself without the buttress of the popularity of his faith.

      • I loved, loved Reggie. But the man said a fair amount of really idiotic things and prosetylized every chance he got . It’s a little easier to forgive coming from the greatest player of all time at his position, though.

      • Comment from Denver: If Tebow were black—a Reggie White, say—his religiosity would pass by w/o much comment, since we’re kind of used to faith talk from black players.

        This rather rings true to me, coupled with the fact that black evangelicals also tend to vote for the correct party and so pose no threat to the left’s agenda. Theologico-politically in the clear.

        • Hard for a white guy out there. Are you going to go all Pat Buchanan on us now?

          • No. I’d vote for Obama over Buchanan.

            If you choose not to entertain thoughts you don’t necessarily agree with, sir, you’re in the wrong place.

          • No one is more persecuted than Christians. White Christians. Conservative White Christians. You know it, but you’re afraid to say so.

        • Yes, because there were so many attacks on Kurt Warner’s religiosity.

        • I recall that Reggie and Mark Chmura were pretty big Republicans, the local GB stations often had them speaking at conservative events. I don’t recall anyone getting on Chmura just because he was a white Evangelical.

          • Yeah, Chmura was just made fun of when he was caught nailing his underage babysitter.

          • He pretty much earned it. And would have earned it had he been an atheist liberal Democrat, too. Schtupping the teenage babysitter is a school-on-Saturday maneuver (not to mention, um, statutory rape) no matter what your politics might be.

      • I’m in with Fish and Burt, it’s the endless talk about his faith that annoys the bejesus out of me. Kurt Warner, too. I’m pretty sick of the way faith is evidence in sports in general–so much of it is about how “God really helped me out there today.” If God is anything like these folks say he is, he doesn’t give an angel’s wingfeather about who wins or loses, and if he does, then I’m going to quit enjoying football and just start betting on it, putting my money on whichever team has the most devout players.

        Seriously, though, be as devout as you want, just don’t feel the need to constantly bring it up in every conversation, or the hatin’ will begin. That’s why nobody hate Steve Young–he never tried to hide being a Mormon, but he didn’t act like it was anything special that needed to be emphasized all the time.

        It’s always been my impression that Christians who really live their faith don’t need John 3:16 eyeliner to make the rest of us notice.

  7. Isn’t Kurt Warner a pretty hard-core Christian? I seem to remember that in story after story about how great and inspiring Kurt Warner was.

    • Yep, but I don’t recall Warner’s faith being so front-and-center as it is with Tebow.

    • He is, but the Warner iconography goes:

      Tough guy: always hung in the pocket till the last minute (which is why he was hurt so much)

      Rags-to-riches: bagger at a grocery store before he got the NFL break

      Sincere as heck: when his wife couldn’t find a babysitter for their first date, told her to bring the kids.

      Christian: at best a poor fourth.

      • Well, I agree that the surrounding things matter. Not just in terms that there are other things that prop Warner up (though I remember his religion being more front-and-center than just put forth), but with Tebow as well. I don’t think it’s just because he’s Christian. I think it’s because he comes across as weak. Ironically unmasculine, in his own way, for a guy as large and muscular as he is. Or maybe just socially immature.

        I think a fair amount of it is a sort of social discomfort. I actually wonder if it is related to the combination of having atypically strong religious beliefs and being homeschooled. Not knowing how to fit in with people that aren’t like him, and so doubling down on his (potentially alienating) self-image.

    • It would definitely be mentioned at times, but Warner never wore his faith (literally and figuratively) like Tebow.

  8. I think people don’t like Tebow because people don’t like Tebow fans, and that’s the launching point of this particular Kultur War battle.

    • This is a good point.

      I’d add that there are a large percentage of sports fans out there that HATE when they perceive that people (not on their teams) have been granted fame and glory without having done anything to merit it.

      I remember when BBall fans hated Kobe so, even before they had any idea the he could be a d**k. I also remember when Elway (another Bronco QB) was hated for years by anyone not in the low 8000s zip codes because he declared himself too special to play for the sorry team that drafted him.

      And more than anything else, I remember how golf fans hated – and I mean loathed – Tiger Woods when he first turned pro. The first two years, every victory was followed by lengthy explanations of how that last victory didn’t really “count” as a an indication of his skill or game.

      (LeBron is the interesting case that was for years pretty much beloved for his pre-ring constant self-PR [commercials, chalk throwing, sideline dance choreography], but who became the most notorious person in his league after being willing to attend a victory parade and talk about his championship destiny right after getting punked in the playoffs.)

      If Tebow fans want their guy to get some cred, they should be aware that him hiding his faith ain’t going to have any impact. When he starts maturing and winning (which I certainly think he will; guy looks like one of those people that just finds ways to win) all of those things will fall by the wayside. Till then, everyone will be rooting for him to fail.

      • I hated Elway before his NFL career, but it’s because he went to Stanford and whined about how the greatest play in the history of college football ruined his career. I admired the way he told the Irsays to fish themselves, and the way they later sneaked out of Baltimore in the dead of night only reinforced that.

  9. I also remember when Elway (another Bronco QB) was hated for years by anyone not in the low 8000s zip codes because he declared himself too special to play for the sorry team that drafted him.

    I had that exact same reaction to Eli Manning. I still don’t like him.

        • San Diego’s famously unpopular quarterback, Ryan Leaf, was unpopular for reasons having nothing to do with his religion (or lack thereof) and only somewhat for his on-field performance (although that sure didn’t help). And deservedly so — it was his work ethic and his attitude of entitlement, as if he’d already earned success in the NFL because he’d been a good player in college.

          I think at the end of the day, NFL fans will like or dislike a player based on performance more than anything else. Ultimately, that will be true for Tim Tebow as well.

          • it was [Ryan Leaf’s] work ethic and his attitude of entitlement

            Which led directly to his on-field (lack of) performance. I’d have a hard time separating the two.

            JaMarcus was about as bad, but shielded from real hatred by the consensus that it was really Al Davis’s fault.

          • Yep, Ryan Leaf was hated for being a punk through and through. I saw him play when I was at Oregon. I remember one third down play in a losing effort when he threw an incomplete pass, and as he walked off the field after the play he went out of his way to put in a blindside hit on an Oregon player (Leaf’s a big guy). 50,000 fans saw it (the refs didn’t), and nobody in Oregon was surprised when Leaf’s attitude and behavioral problems put a short end to what could have been a good pro career. Definitely hate-worthy.

          • You probably recall that it was considered a toss-up who would go first in the draft: Leaf or Peyton. Hard to imagine.

          • Actually, I’d forgotten, but you’re right. Based on pure talent, a tossup was exactly right. But based on attitude–well, as a mild Colts fan (I’m not really into the pro game that much, but I’m a Hoosier), I’m glad they made the right call on that.

  10. Yeah, I don’t care about Tebow’s religion. I care that idiotic Florida and/or Christians have glommed on to Tebow as if he’s the second coming of Joe Montana because he managed to beat one of the worst teams in the NFL by a field goal.

    So, I don’t want Tebow to fail because of him. I want Tebow to fail to shut those people up.

        • Costco has a 70″ television. 70 inches!

          I’m only five-foot-nine in my Doc Martens!

          This tells me that by the time I get the necessary disposable funds/husband points accumulated, they’ll have one even bigger that I can lust after.

          • Best Buy has put the TV I want on sale. I’m trying to convince K that now is the time to buy. Of course, right now she’s out of town on travel, and were I a less scrupulous husband…

          • It looks different? That’s funny. No, dear, it’s the same tv. It probably just looks different because you’ve been travelling.

          • A 70 inch TV? You could fit a full-sized bookcase in the space that takes up.

          • We have 12 bookcases already.

            We need to do a culling because the books are apparently mating because there are piles of them all over the house.

          • You need a librarian to keep them in their places. (Just don’t call him a monkey.)

          • It’s worth paying attention to those “viewing distance vs. TV size” calculations. It is indeed possible to have a TV that’s too big (bigger screen with same number of pixels = bigger pixels, resulting in grainy-looking images if you sit too close.)

          • by the time I get the necessary disposable funds/husband points accumulated,

            I first read that as needing a disposable husband. Made me glad my wife doesn’t want a large screen TV.

          • You don’t need a TV bigger than 46″ unless you have a truly epic television room. Acreage, I’m talkin’.

  11. I think I can do a pretty good job of explaining why a lot of people are nowadays rooting against Tim Tebow.

    It seems worth pointing out that there is far more rooting against Tebow now than there was, say, two years ago. Like, orders of magnitude more. It also seems worth pointing out that he was as or more prominent two years ago (when he was the star QB of a national championship college football team with a unique skill set), and indeed his displays of faith and character were as or more prominent at the time.

    Speaking personally as a nonreligious diehard Bills fan, I can even say that I was really hoping for my Bills to get the guy in the early part of the second round of the draft that year.

    But I also was under no illusions as to the huge problems to overcome for him to be a good NFL QB, and that there was a good chance that those problems would be uncorrectable, and would certainly take a couple of years to be corrected enough for him to be a decent QB if they were correctable. Still, I thought, if he doesn’t work out at QB, he’s a good enough athlete that other uses can be found for him. Heck, even last year, I was kinda rooting for him, absurd as I thought the notion of him being the top-selling jersey in the NFL.

    And the fact remains that a year and a half into his NFL career, he has not corrected those problems. In other words, he just isn’t very good (or at least not yet). He had no business being a starting QB in the NFL unless and until his team was ready to give up on the season and try to accelerate his development, with the knowledge that if he failed to develop, they would need to get a new QB in the offseason.

    But anyone pointing this exceedingly obvious fact out to a Tebow fan gets ripped as being anti-Christian. Or, if they don’t get ripped as such, the counterargument is always something along the lines of “but he’s such a good person and a good Christian [or, euphemistically, “a good leader”], he has to be a great QB/deserves to start/will always give the Broncos their best chance to win,” etc. Worst of all, Tebow’s fans were prepared to destroy the Broncos’ season by creating a huge QB controversy and turning the issue into a gigantic distraction for this belief.

    And…..no. That’s not how it works. Sorry. His faith and character do not entitle him to be a starting QB in the NFL. They do not erase the fact that he’s not very good at throwing the football and that it’s very difficult to succeed in the NFL as a primarily running QB.

    So, yeah, I was rooting against him last week. A year ago, I wasn’t. And the reason is simply this: there is a little bit of pleasure in being right about something, and a little bit of displeasure in eating crow. Sure, sometimes you don’t actually want to be right about something because of the other consequences, but even then those consequences are at least marginally less devastating when they prove you right. And, since like most people I’m not a Broncos fan, in this case there are actually no consequences to being right about Tebow being unready to be a starting QB in the NFL.

    So that’s why I root against Tebow these days: I like to be right.

    • I was saying the same things during the “Where will Michael Vick end up” frenzy. He was a spectacular quarter back, but not a particularly good one, I would say, so he’ll either be the backup on a good team or the starter for a bad one. Either way, Vick won’t really matter, so y’all need to calm down. Then it turned out that he had somehow turned into a great quarterback while not playing NFL football in prison.

      I hate being wrong.

      • Give him time to implode.

        I give it 3-5 odds it’s less than 18 months. That’s fine if you just want to get through one season…

    • MarkT, I felt that way about Vince Young, that his game didn’t really translate to the NFL. But it didn’t occur to me to root against him.

      • No doubt. But VY didn’t get anymore than 1% of the hype that Tebow gets, and was a heckuva lot less polarizing in terms of his talent. Outside of UT nation, I seem to recall the conversation mostly being over whether he was a project player or destined for failure. IOW, there wasn’t much of a debate to win.

        Mind you, none of this says anything about what I think about Tebow himself, for whom I actually hold a certain amount of sympathy – it’s not his fault his devotees are borderline cultists, and he certainly has done what he can to discourage that behavior and on the whole has handled a very difficult situation professionally and with class.

        • I can’t hang, Mark. Been reading the Denver paper out of curiosity and the religion thing is there. See also that dude on the Daily Show quoted above. That’s some agenda there.

          Even if it was just Coach McDaniels, somebody believed he was worth a 1st-rd pick, and the guy is a proven winner. Orton is both dinged up and horrible, so they have nothing to lose.

          For the record, I picked up the Miami game on radio and listened to see how he did. Turned it off with about 5 minutes to go—the dude obviously sucks.

          But I say, no religion at work here, no pushback. There’ve been lots of sucky QBs who got their shot, like that Harvard dude in Buffalo. Tebow’s credentials are at least as good as his.

          • I actually don’t have a problem with him getting the starting job at this point – Orton’s been terrible (perhaps partly due to the Tebow frenzy distraction, but a pro shouldn’t let that distract him), the team’s not going anywhere, and there was no place better for Tebow to get his first start than Miami. Even if John Fox thinks that Brady Quinn is a better QB (and I have no idea if he does), starting Tebow now still makes more sense, because if Tebow sucks it’ll be a lot easier to get rid of the circus that comes with having him on your team next year, and if he’s good, then he can be the starter next year without any problem and the circus will actively help the team more than it hurts it.

            But a month or two ago, while the Broncos still had hope for this year, there was no reason in the world for Fox to go any other way. Orton had been a passable QB for a while in the league, and obviously has far more prototypical skills.

            This was blasphemy to Tebow’s cultists, who insisted that they knew far better than John Fox that Tebow was a better QB than Orton right now, despite not seeing him practice at all. Worse, they seemed to take the fact of Orton having the job as a personal affront despite the fact that the problems with Tebow’s game are obvious every time I throws the ball.

            That he was worth a first-round pick likewise does not entitle him to the starting job. I shudder to think how bad my Bills would be right now if they had that philosophy. Nor, for that matter, does being a winner, though it certainly helps and makes him preferable to the JP Losmans of the world who win nothing but get drafted highly because they look good at the combine. Also keep in mind that McDaniels drafted him on the assumption that he would fit into McDaniels’ system; a QB like Tebow needs to be in the right system.

            But put it this way – I think it should be beyond dispute that Tebow’s public profile is a result of his huge and sometimes cultlike fan base. The anti-Tebow faction has only come out loudly in the last few weeks since he’s been named the starter. Whatever terms it may use or arguments it may adopt, it is pretty obviously a backlash against the hype of the Cult of Tebow. And this says nothing about the evangelism (both religious and otherwise) inherent in said Cult, which really is insulting to the rest of us.

          • Orton’s been terrible (perhaps partly due to the Tebow frenzy distraction, but a pro shouldn’t let that distract him),

            Well, as a Purdue fan, let me resignedly say Orton never has been very good. He’s always been a very erratic passer. He got his shot in the pros primarily because he’s got the classic pro style, a drop back passer with a strong arm, and there was always the hope that he’d become less erratic. But since his erraticness had nothing to do with whether he was being pressured–the guy’s as capable of hitting spot on just before being sacked as he is of throwing 5 yards wide of the receiver while all the D-linemen are taking a catnap–I’ve always been dubious he’d make much of a mark in the pros.

            As a lifelong Purdue fan, I want Orton to be good, but I just don’t think he’ll ever be more than a journeyman.

          • MarkT, the hating on Tebow is more than football.

            As for an amorphous kick at Tebow’s “cultists,” what, black folk didn’t pull for Jackie Robinson or the early NFL QBs? [Or all of them, even today.]

            Do fundies want Tebow to do well? No doubt. Mormons pulled for Steve Young, I reckon. Probably the Detmers, too, both of whom kind of sucked and I know b/c they played for the Eagles.

            Did I get a kick out of having 2 of the better black QBs [Cunningham & McNabb] of all time? I admit I did, just like I pulled for James Harris and esp Warren Moon: if the Eagles weren’t playing, I rooted for the black guy, if any.

            So, yeah, there’s a provincialism, but what possible excuse do the Tebow-haters really have? Because they’re out there, and not just because he will indeed suck in the NFL. It’s agenda, and above, rather than simply charge religious bigotry, I’m even guessing it’s part political, that white evangelicals tend to vote for the wrong party, and Tebow is a totem for that.

            [Oh yeah, and as the top pick in the draft, Vince Young did pretty much suck, although he had a thing for winning games.]

          • TvD,

            I think the answer is implicit in your analysis. Mormons are acceptable, and so are blacks. Even Christians in general. But fundies? Is there a more despicable group in America? I mean, other than Scientologists?

          • Yes, James, I think we’ve hit the nub of it, with the proviso that black fundies get a pass as long as they tend to vote the right way.

          • Or worst of all, atheists.

            Here’s a thought experiment — assume that Mit Wobet won the Heisman Trophy and carried Secular State University to two successive BCS national championships. Everyone who knows anything

            Does Mit Wobet get drafted #1 overall in the NFL? Is drafting a prominent and preachy atheist as a QB buying more controversy than an NFL team needs or wants? Does it matter if that team has a desparate need for a hot young QB? (Think Jacksonville Jaguars or Seattle Seahawks.)

            If the obviously-talented Mr. Wobet became a backup QB, would atheist football fans in particular start clamoring for him to become the starter? Probably not, unless the existing starter demonstrated mediocrity or worse — in which case it wouldn’t be just atheists stirring up the QB controversy.

            If Mr. Wobet became the team’s starter, would Christian football fans embrace an atheist quarterback on “their” team? I suspect so, if he performed well. Would they suspend their fandom until someone more I suspect they would — if he proved himself no better than the mediocrity he replaced. If he proved just as capable in the pros as he had been in college, I think he’d win over all the fans who might not care for his outlook on matters of faith.

            Wanting the guy to have a particular religious point of view is one thing, but winning is what’s important to the fan.

          • I mean, other than Scientologists?

            That’s why everyone hates John Travolta.

          • That’s why everyone hates John Travolta.

            Him, too, but I was really thinking of Tom Cruise. And Isaac Hayes. Oh, wait, according to TvD, religious black people get a pass, so I guess I’m ok with Hayes after all.

          • Which John Travolta? The one who was in Pulp Fiction, or the one who was in Swordfish?

          • John Travolta was not the problem with Swordfish. The horrendously unexciting manner in which Halle Berry’s breasts were deployed was of far greater significance.

          • Oh, granted.

            However, the John Travolta of Pulp Fiction is not the same John Travolta of many of the things following Pulp Fiction.

            I’m waiting to see if the same thing happens with Mickey.

          • I liked Travolta in both Pulp Fiction and Face/Off. And he was one of the top three sweathogs.

          • Pulp Fiction is one of the greatest movies ever made, and has no bad performances, by anyone, including Travolta.

            Face/Off, for my money, was one of the worst films ever made–ridiculous premise, ridiculous development, and with two leads playing their favorite role, themselves.

            But I really like Travolta in Get Shorty, a very underappreciated flick.

          • Get Shorty was awful. Face/Off was good popcorn entertainment, or it would have been if it had ended an half-an-hour sooner. Pulp Fiction good, but overrated.

          • Will,

            Either you’ve accidentally reversed the film titles in your comment, or you’ve provided definitive proof that value is subjective. I could go on at length about how awful Face Off was except that I’ve mercifully blanked it from my memory.

            Get Shorty was excellent precisely because it never took itself too seriously. It was intended as a light-hearted Elmore Leonard romp and it hit all the notes perfectly. It’s the Chrysler Town and Country of gangster films.

          • Face/Off, for my money, was one of the worst films ever made–ridiculous premise, ridiculous development, and with two leads playing their favorite role, themselves.

            And each other, which was the fun part.


            But I really like Travolta in Get Shorty, a very underappreciated flick.

            Me too. (Also loved Gene Hackman.) The sequel was abominable, though.

        • Mind you, none of this says anything about what I think about Tebow himself, for whom I actually hold a certain amount of sympathy – it’s not his fault his devotees are borderline cultists,

          Tim Tebow is Derek Jeter.

        • Not sure I completely agree that Tebow has handled the situation professionally and with class, as he hasn’t exactly been shy about seeking media attention or done much to tone down the ridiculous zealotry of many of his fans.

          Another big reason a lot of us don’t like Tebow is that his raving fanbois aren’t just random fans — there are many prominent sports media figures who swoon every time his name comes up despite his utter lack of accomplishment that it makes it near-impossible to avoid the Cult Of Tebow if you follow sports media at all.

        • Whoops — lost in the edit, but I’m sure you all inferred, Mit Wobet is an outspoken atheist in addition to being a promising and successful college QB.

          • Burt, since evangelical atheism is a negative dynamic, it’s never worked for me as a goose-and-gander thing.

            I’m finding some of the comments here revealing; I wonder just how much Tebow proselytism they’ve actually had to endure and how much is their own mishigas.

  12. I’m missing the part where it is all evil atheist liberals who are beating up on The Bow. Is there any evidence all his haters are just one political or religious type? I believe football fans skew slightly to the Conservative side.

  13. The whole Tim Tebow conversation reminds me of a Jeff Foxworthy routine about NASCAR driver Jeff Gordon. He posits that Jeff Gordon is the most hated NASCAR driver because he enunciates and NASCAR has no place for clear communication.

    A while back I did a google on Gordon because I could have sworn I remember him a spokesperson for the LDS church (he was) but heard he was a Christian (and not in the sense that Mormons are Christians). Anyhow, I never got a clear explanation for that, but did see a whole lot of “Jeff Gordon is a wuss” comments.

    I think there is a relationship between opposition to Gordon and Tebow is not entirely unrelated.

    • Eh, Gordon was hated by NASCAR fans of the time because he was a good lookin’ California boy walking into their greamy grimy Southern sport. So, of course, it being sports, that turned into the gay jokes about him.

      With Tebow, it’s different. It’s partly a UF thing, it’s partly an SEC exceptionalism thing, it’s partly an uneducated football fan thing. I’ve never heard a gay joke about Tebow, other than, “if you can get out of UF after four years as the starting QB and still be a virgin, you must be gay” but to be honest, the real meaning is they don’t buy he came out of UF a virgin.

      • Regardless of his roots, and his stature, Tebow does not come across as having a particularly masculine personality. That’s the connection I am referring to.

    • I think there is a relationship between opposition to Gordon and Tebow is not entirely unrelated.

      Finally, someone else whose edit-and-proofread cycle is as flawed as mine is.

  14. IOZ on Tebow says it all (but he always does, doesn’t he?)

    Tebow does indeed lack “those quarterback things that we love.” What he does not do, unlike, say, a certain lumbering rape-yeti who, between seventeen sacks, four broken toes (fortunately, he has sixteen), and a lawsuit per game, has managed a career impressive both in analyst-statistician land and in the ledger of Superbowl victories. What I mean to say is that the problem with Tim Tebow is not his unorthodox style of play. He is not an unorthodox quarterback. He is a bad quarterback. Insofar as he strikes fear into the hearts of NFL fans, it’s that we fear he represents the quality and type of quarterback coming out of the hopelessly bonkers world of college ball.

    What gets me is that Jackson could have written exactly the same column substituting the words “Cam Newton” for “Tim Tebow” and come off as something less that a total moron. Sure the Panthers stink, but Newton looks like a real prospect rather than a regrettable but now-inescapable mistake.

    http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2011/10/tiny-tim.html

  15. My $0.02:

    Sports figures, their public personae, and the acceptance thereof is largely all an area of magic. Jaybird’s right: most of this is manufactured (although the manufacturing is willfull top-down stuff in wrestling and bottom-up organic media manufacturing in football).

  16. Watch Tim Tebow get “Tebowed” by the man who sacked him.

    Oh my.

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