So E.D. points out that Alyssa Rosenberg is watching the The X-Files: Season One
Though not on my favorites list, I think that Orson Scott Card can clear this up for us with a little pithy quotation:
“Science fiction has rivets and fantasy has trees.”
Edit: The first draft of this post said that E.D. was watching the X-Files’ first season for the first time. He points out in comments that this is not the case. I have never been more pleased to have misread someone in a blurry morning haze than I am now.
The X-Files has rivets AND trees. Next you’ll be quoting Margaret Atwood.
There was a quotation that said something to the effect of “does it use quantum particles? Then it’s science fiction. Does it use elven tears? Then it’s fantasy” but I couldn’t find it.
To those who are wondering, “why
isn’t ‘S-F’ the same as ‘sci-fi’?”
Well, you see, there’s a fine line
between Robert Heinlein
and ‘Son of the Two-Headed Fly’.
but both can have dragons.
Here’s a dynamic about X-Files (at least in the Duchovny era) that I have never seen discussed, but which in my mind was part of what made the over-arching story so compelling:
The series starts off with the premise that Mulder represents faith and Scully reason. But as the series continues I would argue that they shift in that dynamic. As the events of each episode (and the movie) passed evidence continued to accrue that there was something to “the supernatural” in general, and the existence of extra-terrestrials more specifically. At some point Scully’s stubborn refusal to acknowledge the definite probability of either is the very opposite of adhering to scientific method; hover time it becomes a kind of faith that these things can’t exist in the universe *she* want to believe in.
I recognize that this being a TV show, and each character was created to represent an archetype. So I doubt that Chris Carter or his writers ever intended this dynamic, but it exists nonetheless.
“This has to have a rational explanation!” is funny because the author’s thumb is on the scale.
It does have a rational explanation… they used elven tears.
I think they did intend to subvert/invert the dynamic. Why else make Scully a Catholic right up front?
A good point. I really liked the earlier episodes that involved religion and spirituality, where their polar roles were reversed.
But to address the actual point of the post, if you have to pic one or the other X-Files is sic-fi .
I don’t think it helps to make arguments or hone a definition of sic-fi. I think for this issue, Potter Stewarts famous quote about pornography is applicable.
See that’s funny because that same quote came to mind when I thought about E.D.’s post, but I was coming down squarely on fantasy.
The difference between science fiction and fantasy is “does that glowy thing operate on rules…?” Fantasy is much much more likely to create something “storyworthy” rather than “worldbuilding worthy.”
Stasheff’s world is science fiction — so is McCaffrey’s. Tolkien’s, not at all. Even Niven’s fantasy world is actually science fiction. I’ve yet to see whether Martin’s world is fantasy or science fiction — leaning fantasy, as of now.
I couldn’t agree less, your assesment of the difference is naive at best – lots of fantasy runs on strict rules, tons of sci fi uses technology as a substitute for magic without any regard for physical rules (and no need to explain it away).
Tolkien’s world certainly operates on rules far more stringently than a lot of the hard sci-fi I have ever read. Just because he doesn’t spend a third of his prose telling you what those rules are is not the same as not having them.
… having too many rings, so letting them all get eaten by dragons is not good writing, imnsho. And what happened to Alatar again? (I can dig Sarumon, I love Pallantirs…)
Space Opera is not science fiction, in my opinion.
That I agree with, I always say Star Wars is fantasy and Star Trek is sci-fi.
Star Wars *WAS* fantasy.
They can test for Jedi now.
…just because you can test to be a wizard doesn’t maek it not fantasy.
If it’s a blood test rather than a “does he cause the salamander petal to catch fire when we place it in his hand” test, it’s a good indicator.
Unfortunately, the midichlorian smear is considered elective, and so very few insurance carriers are willing to carry it. For parents who want to know if they should save up for jedi training, it’s worth paying for it out of pocket.
This is a reason why the Galactic Republic needs to shift to a single-payer model. Early detection produces the best Jedi, and how many potential Jedi have we lost because they were enslaved on obscure, poverty-stricken backwater planets?
So you’re an advocate of truly universal coverage?
I don’t think it’s fair that Earth has so much air while Mercury doesn’t have any.
I mean, no politics.
It also complicates preventive medicine. For adolescents with abnormally high midichlorian counts, it’s now considered the standard of care to start them on Zoloft to abate the rising incidence of Sithism.
“I think my child has Jedi. Prescribe an antibiotic!”
“Ma’am, I don’t think…”
“If you don’t, I’ll go to a doctor who will!”
“I think my child has
Jedichronic lyme disease. Prescribe an antibiotic!”And we’ve left the realm of sci-fi and entered harsh, cold reality.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while now (i.e.: 5 minutes), and I’d like to weigh in with a wacky theory on the difference of sic-fi and fantasy:
The best differentiator is not setting, props or costumes; it’s character.
Fantasy book characters are mythic, and the stories are a way of tweaking and putting new spin on classic archetypes. So in a story like Harry Potter, for example, Harry isn’t just a protagonist who happens to be a really good wizard. He is a twist on the lost scion, fulfilling his capital-D Destiny to depose the usurper and restore Order.
Sci-fi characters, on the other hand, are usually people like us who are put into odd situations to make metaphorical points. Guy Montag is a person with a viewpoint similar to our own in a world created for the purpose of exploring censorship. Winston Smith was used so that someone with our eyes could take a peek at a completely totalitarian system. The crew of the USS Enterprise are more or less us, traveling to planets that let us contemplate various issues we have a hard time grappling with, such as race relations, same sex relationships, how to deal with terrorism or how we approach our own mortality. (The first two series even gave us major characters – Spock and Data – that in different ways allowed us to explore what it is to be human by poking at likable characters that weren’t.)
At the end of the day, I think this is where sic-fi and fantasy differ.
It seems to me that actual sci-fi, as opposed to “quantum particles instead of elven tears”, is something that, at its heart, asks the question “how might the world be different if (something) were true?”
For example, Starship Troopers asks “how might the world be different if we had a truly objective moral code that could be logically derived from first principles?” Stars My Destination asks “how might the world be different if people could teleport?”
The story itself isn’t necessarily derived from or even related to that question. But if someone’s trying to draw a line between actual Speculative Fiction “SF” and fantasy, that’s probably the place to start.
I know of a fantasy world that asks the question, “what if the rules were so complex that we couldn’t understand them?”
JB – You don’t mind if I riff on some of the stuff you have me thinking about in a main page post, do you?
Just throw me a link!
I don’t think X-Files is either sci-fi or fantasy — it’s a combination of police drama and suspense/horror.
Yes, I came here to say that X-Flies was neither SF nor fantasy, but “television.”
Your reading is similar, but more exact and accurate, I believe.
I do not look at sci-fi and fantasy as mutually exclusive of each other. I normally think of fantasy as a subset inside science fiction. I do not agree with the thought that sci-fi is just fantasy that has an explaination for the Magic/Tech in the book.
I would love to hear from people that would like to try and split the two for me.
The most glaringly obvious distinctions between sci-fi and fantasy are nerds are strongly attracted to sci-fi while fantasy makes geeks hearts go pitter patter. It’s all part of mythological sexual sublimation and how attraction inevitably gets tossed in the mix–if you’ve got the myth, you soon find out your hand has got the monkey spanking. Plus, the profound attraction of solitude in these kinds of circumstances makes attraction to real human beings exceeding dull and colorless. I think ultimately, whatever one’s proclivities are, aloneness and solitude will always trump the dreary nature of reality. “Deep-in” as they say. And what in this world could possibly compete with the limitless dimensions of human imagination? Or Eroica. Or Erotica. Or human sexuality….
This is less charitable than I like to see but 100% on-topic.
Thanks JB. You’re a true Mensch! And HOW I miss our conversations. How you make me laugh!
Best, my friend. A
Elias, please don’t delete the above comments. I’m going to try and make all comments on the gentler side–just watch!
Thanks–for the second chance. Lost track, but nonetheless, you’ve exhibited great patience and I appreciate that very much. So, thanks again! Unfortunately, it appears I’ve gone way past the point of no return with the other posters, readers and commenters. I doubt that can ever be patched up, much to my deep disappointment. See ya later. H Oh, I mean, A.
Er… what?
Everybody on this thread is so wrong. I guess I have my idea for tomorrow’s post.
300 comment thread, here we come!
Ahem…I am most certainly *not* watching X-Files for the first time. That’s Alyssa you’re talking about.
I will make the necessary edits tonight.
I also put the wrong link in my post! ARGH!!!! I will edit that too.
Ah, hell. I’ll make them now. Apologies!
No problem!
I guess I’ve never given a lot of thought to it. In my head, it seems like the difference is in the vehicle: One gets you to fantastic places through technology, and the other, magic.
So I didn’t watch the X-Files until I was in college, but then I devoured it and did my best to hook anyone and everyone who I could find…and then of course the show crapped out in such a magnificently horrid way. Oh well.
I think it’s sci-fi but sci-fi with magic.
So science fantasy in the vein of Star Wars where ideas are swallowed whole without explanation instead of being explored by the reader.
Card’s analogy is superficial. Fantasy and science fiction share many things but attempt them in different ways. SF is egalitarian, fantasy is elitist.